tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5593026103512648416.post4905076718173406842..comments2024-03-05T05:13:14.325-08:00Comments on A Meaningful Life, A Better World: How Vegans Hurt AnimalsMatt Ballhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12389020149472026193noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5593026103512648416.post-76629425567097792402017-05-27T14:46:41.634-07:002017-05-27T14:46:41.634-07:00Jun, it would be great if you would actually addre...Jun, it would be great if you would actually address something -- anything -- I *actually said* in the video. <br />As for what you say in your latest comment - how does eating beef *actually hurt* other animals (it obviously hurts the cow)? As the environment changes, wild animals will continue to suffer and die, *just as they do now*. There may be fewer of them, or there may be more. <br />All wild animals suffer, and all wild animals die, regardless of global warming. But at least they aren't being tortured. <br />I know it is hard to get past environmental orthodoxy. But we should simply not worry about some alleged abstraction and look past actual torture. <br />I'm sorry I am failing to convey this to you, and that you misunderstand what I actually say in the video at Vox. The bottom line is that if you are eating chicken, you are paying someone directly to torture a sentient being. The rest is all hand-waving. <br />Note: my personal blog is not a forum for general debate. Good luck to you!Matt Ballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389020149472026193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5593026103512648416.post-80369402452006005572017-05-27T14:38:56.399-07:002017-05-27T14:38:56.399-07:00Matt, the recent video on Vox where you encourage ...Matt, the recent video on Vox where you encourage people to eat beef is incredibly irresponsible and completely incorrect. To encourage people to eat beef instead of chicken will invariably lead to global warming at an even faster scale. This will result in much more human suffering, but it will also increase animal suffering at a completely different magnitude! <br /><br />When climates change and lands dry up, at least people can leave to greener pastures, or there is international help. Who helps the animals? No one, if they do not adapt then they suffer and die. <br /><br />And by your comments "Eating a burger or steak will be responsible for a tiny amount of additional methane in the atmosphere" You show that you do not have any understanding of statistics and the power of numbers. Yes, you as an individual do not make a big difference but lots of people together make a massive difference. What if we turned around the argument back to you that if I eat one chicken the actual amount of suffering that it adds is minuscule and therefore its no use to do it. Junnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5593026103512648416.post-92142385397607326532017-05-27T14:08:19.490-07:002017-05-27T14:08:19.490-07:00In case you don't want to read that post:
Eati...In case you don't want to read that post:<br />Eating a burger or steak will be responsible for a tiny tiny amount of additional methane in the atmosphere. This will have exactly zero impact in the world in terms of actual suffering (I say this as a former DOE Global Change Fellow). Eating a part of a chicken is directly responsible for multiple days of actual torture of a sentient being.<br />Sorry I didn't spell that out directly.Matt Ballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389020149472026193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5593026103512648416.post-77608352522112169592017-05-27T14:00:42.197-07:002017-05-27T14:00:42.197-07:00Hi Benjamin,
Thanks for taking the time to write. ...Hi Benjamin,<br />Thanks for taking the time to write. Here is my general response:<br />http://www.mattball.org/2017/01/a-rambling-rant-to-ezra-klein-re-global.html<br />Note that chickens are actively tortured, for all intents and purposes. As Professor of Veterinary Science John Webster has noted, modern poultry production is, “in both magnitude and severity, the single most severe, systematic example of man’s inhumanity to another sentient animals.” <br />Take care, and good luck!Matt Ballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389020149472026193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5593026103512648416.post-47052987625360358232017-05-27T12:37:04.671-07:002017-05-27T12:37:04.671-07:00Hey Matt Ball, I came here from a video you just p...Hey Matt Ball, I came here from a video you just put out with Vox advocating having people cut out chicken from their diet in favor of beef in order to reduce animal suffering. I felt that there was a massive oversight in that video, namely that it ignored the immense amount of green house gasses that were produced in farm production of cows as opposed to chickens. <br /><br />I don't know the exact numbers but I'm suspecting the net result of the green house gasses emitted by cow farming produces more net animal suffering than does chicken farming, not to mention quite a bit more human suffering as well. Also, you may not agree with me on this, but I don't value animals on a life to life basis, I hold more value to animals that are in danger of going extinct, and animals that have greater intelligence both social and logistical. <br /><br />If your goal is to reduce animal suffering as much as possible, encouraging the consumption of cows over chickens seems immensely counterproductive to me, and I bring this up because I am concerned about the environment as a whole, including animals. <br /><br />It surprises me that here you do actually cite statistics that show how much more harmful cows are to the environment than chickens, but then choose to ignore those environmental factors in making your moral decisions about meat. I believe that you genuinely care about this issue, but due to this oversight I cannot but believe that your thesis is in direct opposition to your mission. I don't believe it is at all responsible to ignore environmental factors when deciding on a moral diet, in fact I believe that is the opposite of responsible. I believe that spreading the message that eating cows is more morally righteous than eating chickens is genuinely morally wrong, or at least morally ignorant. I won't pretend to be a more righteous person than you, I eat meat after all, I try to avoid beef in favor of chicken, and when I buy chicken I have a preference for organic chickens or otherwise chickens that are treated better than your average chicken. While I am myself not a vegan I do respect those who have made that decision as being of strong moral character, at least for this specific form of morality. I'm just concerned that your message might ultimately cause more harm to the environment as a whole, than encouraging people against beef in favor of chicken would.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769030743072572595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5593026103512648416.post-14051723173220774902017-05-17T16:47:00.528-07:002017-05-17T16:47:00.528-07:00Another good article! It will be shared on Faceboo...Another good article! It will be shared on Facebook.com/ChicagoVeg tonight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com